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1) More or less, yep. Even those "natural rights" had to be demanded and paid for in blood. I'm talking about how the world has worked so far, not how I think it should be. It's useful to pretend otherwise most of the time, but when shit goes down you can't afford that luxury.

2) Yep. In this case I mean rights as in "water rights" as opposed to higher-order natural rights. Pragmatic reasons to encourage gay marriage are largely the same as for regular ones: married people live longer and are generally more happy. Stable households mean stable communities. Sensible distribution of estates. More homes willing and able to adopt the millions of kids who need them. Etc. Procreation is not the entire or even the most important reason to encourage households.

Unfortunately those arguments don't hold water with people who think being gay is immoral in and of itself.



Gay marriage does not benefit the state. Marriage between a man and woman benefits the state in that a marriage is a structure designed to provide for the safe procreation & rearing of children. Gays, by definition, don't procreate.

Any society that accepts and encourages gay marriages is committing suicide.




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